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@PEI

~~~~~a few more words~~~~~~~

mikesmith(老猫)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛The decision should NOT be based on:

1) Fear: the fear to disappoint the other manager by rejecting the request; or the fear to annoy your own manager by accepting the job.

2) Rules: there can't be any written rules about "you can't help other departments" in any established corporation (maybe RIM is an exception?). Anyway, even there is, you know who gives it a damn? remember "装在套子里的人"?

The decision should be based on one thing, and one thing only: your own interest.

There are other things to consider though:

1) Reputation, horizontal collaboration and influence: : You work for the company, true, at the same time, try to make it work for you. You probably won't die on the position you are at today, and more often than not, the circle of the industry is not as big as you may think. Build your reputation, expand your circles of friends, have greater influence.

2) Flexibility: In a large corporation, first line managers are not that different from employees. They deal the same shit as you do. Keep them informed about your decision and show enough respects. Leverage them. But at the end of the day, you rely on your own judgments, not theirs.

3) Is it a fun thing to do? To many, this could be the number 1 criteria whether to accept or reject the request...更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
(#7198096@0)
Last Updated: 2012-1-9
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 工作学习 / 事业与工作 / 职场不亢不卑有理有节之案例分析 -wincity(红卫兵); 2012-1-5 {4166} (#7188630@0)
    • 上榜了 ～～～不同意～～～但～～～不反对～～～顶～～～强悍的人生不需要解释～～～但是～～～你没有过大棒～～～不知道有多疼～～～ -c__wang(希望); 2012-1-5 (#7188636@0)
      • 提倡 - “有一点值得一提的就是适当的时候，对适当的人，私下里不通过老板帮他们做点事，对你有好处。” -c__wang(希望); 2012-1-5 (#7188644@0)
      • 慢着。。。。这个写法。。。。瞅着怎么那么像情侣衫。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠); 2012-1-5 (#7188652@0)
      • 希望你不会像不器一样炒俺的鱿鱼。点评你那段的主要原因是我觉得这是我们国移的通病。国移大部分都是知识分子，大多书生气过重，喜欢解释自己，而且往往解释得罗哩罗嗦，不成事，反而误事。 -wincity(红卫兵); 2012-1-5 (#7188706@0)
        • 你是很有心的人。我希望听到这样的声音。我在前几天问道自己爱解释的毛病，你在这里说的很有道理。感谢你。我以前的做法相当彪悍，得罪了很多人。这是在撞墙后的说法。我口语非常好。这些话花我2分都不到。 -c__wang(待定); 2012-1-5 (#7188710@0)
          • 2 minutes? In a conversation, that sounds almost like a life time! By 1 minute, any smile would get frozen already.:-) -cca(不归的如来佛); 2012-1-5 {558} (#7188725@0)
            BTW, regarding talking speed, the following is FYI -- note that since you are "reading from mind", the bars would be much higher.:-)

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Screen Paper Comprehension Reader profile
            100 wpm 110 wpm 50%   Insufficient
            200 wpm 240 wpm 60%  Average reader
            300 wpm 400 wpm 80%  Good reader
            700 wpm 1000 wpm 85%  Excellent, accomplished reader
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Source:
            • 这就是口语灰常好的～～～标～～～准～～～ -c__wang(待定); 2012-1-5 (#7188734@0)
              • Excellent. Tell me how to pronounce wildness? -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188737@0)
                • ～～～威～～～尔～～～第～～～尼～～～思～～～ -c__wang(待定); 2012-1-5 (#7188738@0)
                  • Fairly close. 见过的国移十有八九发错. -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188740@0)
            • Whose mind(s)? -c__wang(待定); 2012-1-5 (#7188744@0)
              • ur own. -cca(不归的如来佛); 2012-1-5 (#7188745@0)
                • Who is not? -c__wang(待定); 2012-1-5 (#7188747@0)
                  • As opposed to reading from screen/paper. -cca(不归的如来佛); 2012-1-5 (#7188798@0)
        • 不気兴趣正在转移, 从空谈政治到注重实际, 这是好事. -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188741@0)
    • 耍小聪明，一句话把人家给噎回去，太容易了。人家在背后跟你上级的上级，说一句话，你10年别想在这个公司翻身。他们连解释的机会都不可能给你。 -szs11(不器); 2012-1-5 (#7188639@0)
    • 经济现在有点恢复，听红卫兵的话，提前抢占一个被开掉的机会，可能也不是坏事啊。 -szs11(不器); 2012-1-5 (#7188643@0)
      • 以不器人之心，度平常人之腹。 -wincity(红卫兵); 2012-1-5 (#7188650@0)
      • 我也想被炒了, 有什么好办法, 兵哥那套好象不管用. -firetrain(火车头); 2012-1-5 (#7188718@0)
        • 被炒是个概率的问题，不能保证一定成功的。通常像红卫兵那样，别人有事来找，尽量都给顶回去。把人都得罪光了，基本就快了。 -szs11(不器); 2012-1-5 (#7188783@0)
          • The funny thing is he has never been out of job and he always makes big money. Outside politics there are much more to learn. -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188800@0)
            • 运气吧。有人在树底下等着，还有捡到死兔子，这并不代表大家都要去树下等着。 -szs11(不器); 2012-1-5 (#7188829@0)
              • 不器appears to be a smart guy. Wish him good luck in his career. -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188853@0)
          • 很可爱的一说。。。 -lifeisgoodd(life is fun); 2012-1-5 (#7188803@0)
            • It will take years of hardship or even a life time to become a professional career smarty rather than just a verbal politician. -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2012-1-5 (#7188828@0)
    • 看来者是谁，帮人也要分等次： -doji(Highdraw); 2012-1-5 {486} (#7188667@0)
      １。 如果是关系不错 的朋友，互相经常帮忙，可以帮着做。
      ２。如果是对方有潜在的价值，比如将来有可能用得着的地方，可以帮着做，但一定要让对方明白你是帮了他一个大忙，让他知道欠你一个人情，以备未来之需。
      ３。如果是单纯的对方想占你便宜，对你而言纯属付出没有回报，让他去吃屎，但是要面带微笑，措辞简短而堂而皇之的原则道理，把讨价还价的辩解的机会封死，不要给对方纠缠的机会，好让他吃了屎安静的走开。

      总之，要让别人觉得你是个很有原则的人，愿意帮忙，但是不会毫无原则的帮，这种事情慢慢就会少了。
    • I will help if it just takes a few minutes, otherwise ask him talk to manager. 举手之劳，又没有风险，卖个人情，否则给他option推给别人。 -nice2002(+7); 2012-1-5 (#7188739@0)
    • 非常非常赞同红红卫兵的建议和分析！人可以对人友善，但工作就是工作，办事一定要讲究原则，否则就是费力不讨好，一味的迁就别人，尤其是不能得到自己领导的认可的情况下，后果可想而知。记得，应该是你的领导决定你的工作的。 -alaabracadabra(AlaAbracadabra); 2012-1-5 (#7188769@0)
      • 另外，也同意，c__wang 的那段回答太长、太文邹邹的，简短和坚定的回答就够了，不需要过多的解释和罗列一大堆书面的词句，否则 －－ １。没人有耐心听完；２。说明了你心虚。 -alaabracadabra(AlaAbracadabra); 2012-1-5 (#7188771@0)
    • 兵哥的这些理论几乎是职场的基本常识。不学会拒绝别人，是给自己找麻烦，，在这方面，常见我们同胞不是太老实，就是抹不开面子，太嫩了，像刚进公司的小女生。。。 -lifeisgoodd(life is fun); 2012-1-5 (#7188775@0)
      • 这句话很真实。国人老实，拒绝人往往不是不好意思，就是好像很生气的样子，结果搞得人家很不高兴。老外拒绝人，则常常是和颜悦色。你是对事不对人，完全可以是发自内心的 big smile。 -lifeisgoodd(life is fun); 2012-1-5 (#7188780@0)
      • 别着急, 慢慢来, 有时候吃亏就占便宜. -healthy321(领导说:做人要低调.); 2012-1-5 (#7188802@0)
        • 职场20余年，，看多了，，已经没啥好着急的了，，，什么话都有道理，，，就是要看用在什么时候。。。 -lifeisgoodd(life is fun); 2012-1-5 (#7188813@0)
    • 兵哥讲的灰常好。 -changanluan(千帆竟过一水云烟); 2012-1-5 (#7188831@0)
    • 方法1：直接问自己老板，别的组的老板让我做什么什么，是不是可以帮他做？或者， 方法2：委婉问老板，别的组的老板让我做什么什么，这个会对本组的工作产生什么负面影响，怎么帮才好？ 真实目的，就是把球踢给你的老板，不要自己做决定。 -wolaiziguangxi(guangxi); 2012-1-5 {170} (#7188891@0)
      同时，问自己老板的时候，不要显示出你不愿帮别的老板，省得得罪别的老板，但是也不要显示出很热心帮忙，这样有可能得罪你的老板，尤其如果刚去新的机构，对里面人事一无所知的时候。
      • 坛子里的国移，应该是30-50之间，按理说应该很圆滑了，起码在国内的环境，应该不会有这些问题。不明白为什么会有这样的 问题？仅仅因为文化不同？ -wolaiziguangxi(guangxi); 2012-1-5 (#7188908@0)
      • 如果确实不知道处理这样也好，不过总这样基本不会有升职的机会的，最好能自己判断合适的处理方式，这种小事正常来说是不用请示的 -hullo(马马虎虎); 2012-1-9 (#7198625@0)
    • 公事公办，是一个挡箭牌，临时用用很应手-但一般不是最好的态度（除非你做螺丝钉毫无灵活性的工作) 一般只对不相干或不愿相干的人用.giving favors, receiving favors, returning favors, 才是千古不变之主旋律。当然是在严格执行制度前提下，政治上不无益乱站队的前提下。 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2012-1-5 (#7188934@0)
      • 当事人可缺地就是“FAVOR”, 菜哥讲讲怎么收获FAVOR？：） -changanluan(千帆竟过一水云烟); 2012-1-5 (#7188971@0)
        • only 收获? no pay, no gain - might need to give favor first, then the receivees will return favors sooner or later ...... -win(秋天的菠菜); 2012-1-5 (#7189072@0)
    • ~~~~~a few more words~~~~~~~ -mikesmith(老猫); 2012-1-9 {1310} (#7198096@0)
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛The decision should NOT be based on:

      1) Fear: the fear to disappoint the other manager by rejecting the request; or the fear to annoy your own manager by accepting the job.

      2) Rules: there can't be any written rules about "you can't help other departments" in any established corporation (maybe RIM is an exception?). Anyway, even there is, you know who gives it a damn? remember "装在套子里的人"?

      The decision should be based on one thing, and one thing only: your own interest.

      There are other things to consider though:

      1) Reputation, horizontal collaboration and influence: : You work for the company, true, at the same time, try to make it work for you. You probably won't die on the position you are at today, and more often than not, the circle of the industry is not as big as you may think. Build your reputation, expand your circles of friends, have greater influence.

      2) Flexibility: In a large corporation, first line managers are not that different from employees. They deal the same shit as you do. Keep them informed about your decision and show enough respects. Leverage them. But at the end of the day, you rely on your own judgments, not theirs.

      3) Is it a fun thing to do? To many, this could be the number 1 criteria whether to accept or reject the request...更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • 非常赞同楼主和老猫的观点，对我来说很值得借鉴。谢谢！ -walkaway(Walker); 2012-1-9 (#7198567@0)

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